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when i had the dare wheels on i needed the thin ones, i got them ordered from motor world - i think it was £2 a nut and £3 for the tool! You do the math - they erode like nobodys business too! They look like bolts though, long and thin - most important thing you shuld buy for alloys is locking wheel nuts and its worth the extra money buying the good ones rather than the £15 ones! Midn you if they really want them off they will have the gear to get them off